Episode 208 with Ken Coleman
Create Path Finders not Test Taker
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Ken Coleman joins the podcast and you will be so inspired!!
Tune in as we explore the art of nurturing childlike wonder in our children's lives. Ken shares insights into finding a fulfilling career, moving away from the pressure to perform, and protecting the innocence and creativity innate to every child. Discover how the educational system impacts our children's development and learn how to guide them toward their true talents and passions. Ken also delves into the power of saying "yes" to opportunities, dealing with rejection, and the importance of showing gratitude. If you're a parent or an individual looking to inspire the next generation, this episode is a must-listen. Don't miss out on this inspiring conversation with Ken Coleman, a guide to helping your children unleash their true potential.
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT:
208 KEN COLEMAN
Ginny Yurich Okay. Are you ready? I'm ready. Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Ginny Yurich. I am the founder of 1000 Hours Outside, and I'm so honored to have a new guest with us today. Ken Coleman, welcome.
Ken Coleman Good to be with you, Ginny.
Ginny Yurich This is a really fantastic. I have got three of your books. I have one question. Life changing answers from today's Leading Voices, which is over a decade old. Ideas, Man, I fell into this one, and I loved it. I have the proximity principle, the proven strategy that will lead you to the career you love and from paycheck to purpose. Just phenomenal books talking about work. And I just read recently in a book by a man named Jost out in that 80% of Americans hate their jobs.
Ken Coleman Yeah, I don't I don't think the word hate is is probably the right word there. 80% of Americans and actually this is worldwide. That data is true that they are disengaged. They they are disengaged in their work. So not quite hate, but disengaged by quitting is you know, they're just kind of going along. They're doing the least amount possible in order to not get fired or they're doing what is asked of them, but nothing more. They're not getting in, giving it their best. They're just collecting a paycheck. That data is true, not hate, but do they enjoy their work? Absolutely not. And that is a massive problem.
Ginny Yurich Yeah, that's a lot of people. Yeah. So we are trying to get kids outside. Yeah. And what we're trying to do is balance out screen time with hands on living. And part of the reason is because when we live in a hands on way, it helps our brains develop. It helps kids develop grit and resilience and qualities that are needed for a rapidly changing world. And so you are this expert on careers and helping people match their passion with their career, finding a career that they feel fulfilled in. Maybe not like that 80%. So when we're talking about childhood, it is really become a place of preparation. There's a really cool quote by Tom Stoppard. He says something like, Because kids grow up, we believe that the purpose of childhood is to grow up, he says. But the purpose of childhood is to be a child.
Ken Coleman Yes.
Ginny Yurich You know, we've really turned into this rat race, so we've got a lot of parents listening and you're in the midst of what's going on in the job market today. I know things have really changed in the past several decades. What advice do you give to parents, even parents of young kids who are already starting to feel that pressure toward Ivy League school and college and career? What do you tell them?
Ken Coleman Yeah, I think that's a wonderful, wonderful question. And I would tell them, stop putting your kids in the expectation or in the places of always performing and create a life for them where they're just wondering, you know, there's something about the phrase childlike wonder. You just let that sit. All of us adults have all this stuff going on in our world. Even in the news of today, all of the scary and the bad and all of the uncertainty take it all. And in the midst of that, you just say childlike. Wonder who look good adjusted to your face. You know, there's something special about that because we think about what is childlike wonder. And childlike wonder is probably one of the most beautiful expressions that the world has ever seen. You know, it's a you know, it's the Christmas morning. They kick it down the stairs fast enough. They tear open the wrapper on their birthday present and they see what mom and dad have gotten them or or what's under the Christmas tree. And it's just that and it's just the sheer wonder. The first time you show a kid, you know, bending a spoon or some magic act or a card trick, it doesn't matter. Like sometimes the most simple things. You know, the videos that get me on, on social media are when they put glasses on these little babies and toddlers that, you know, heretofore couldn't see very well at all. And they put those glasses on that kid and you just see the baby, just sort of the little toddler, just they are seeing the world in a way they've not seen it. That's what I mean when I say childlike wonder. So what's happening in our world is, is that our kids are becoming status symbols for ourselves parents. And when your kids a status symbol, then you're going to be putting more and more pressure on them to perform So you can go look, look, look what I created. Look at my kid. That kid reminds me of me. And boy, it can get selfish really quick. The other thing that's going on is that the education system is already going to create that massive amount of pressure for them. But you take a five year old kid, put them in kindergarten, and they're hardwired for wonder. That's all they've ever been doing is wonder what, Mommy? Why Mommy? Why Mommy? Why Daddy? And you put them in kindergarten and you give them a piece of paper and you go color. And the teacher inevitably says, I'm not knocking teachers. I love teachers, but. The system, says Cutler Between the lines KENNY And that's supposed to be red goes with number one and blue goes with number two. And paint by numbers or color by numbers and color between the lines. Really try to color between lines. Why? Well, we're teaching them to follow directions. No, you're not. You're teaching them how to be conforming. Not creativity. You know, you're not teaching to be creative. So they're a creative individual by birth and by design. And in the school system, pounds of creativity out of them because we make them color between the lines in kindergarten. And then by the time they reach a middle school, it's all about test scores. It's actually not even middle school. It's elementary school now for standardized testing. And they're all stressed out. It's not even their grades with their subject. It's all about the stress, the teacher's feeling. Because if the kid doesn't get the score on the standardized test, the teacher loses their job, the school loses their funding, and on and on and on. So we get the picture. We have got to protect that innocence and protect the childlike wonder for a very, very long time and start putting pressure on them to ace every test to pick a college, to pick a degree, to pick all these things when their brain is still developing, to just get to know them as only you can know them and pay attention to what they're talented at. Pay attention to what lights their heart up. Pay attention to what they'll work harder for. And now you see your son and your daughter as they really are. And the answers to their future are going to be readily apparent if you just help them see them the way that the world sees them.
Ginny Yurich Wow. That's a really different way than how we do it, I think, as a society. Yeah. And you have an interesting story because you had a career pivot in your late twenties, and I think sometimes there's this misnomer that there's a finish line. You know, we're trying to get our kids to age 22 and they've hit the finish line. But so many of us, me, myself included, have had massive career pivots. Can you tell us what happened at 29 when you had and it was happenstance. I mean, this is quite the story, Ken, that it was like an accident or, you know, someone couldn't show up for a thing and you filled in and then this this changes your career. Yeah. Can you tell that story? I think it's good to hear about that squiggly line path that takes us to where we are today.
Ken Coleman Yeah. So I was in a season of wandering. I was not wandering. I was wandering. I was on a path, one clear direction. I thought I was going to get into politics and run for office at one point. It's always in the business world with a business job that was given me some leadership credibility and maybe, you know, helping my resume to where I could run for office one day and I begin to realize that that was not going to be the path for me. And so I was in a season of wandering, trying to figure out what is it that I want to do. This is all kind of confusing. I've been on this one path since I was 16 and have I wasted my life and yet don't know what I want to do now and you know how that goes. So in that season of Wandering between idea, the idea, the idea not really taking a very clear direction, I got the opportunity to be involved in a leadership conference that my company was doing, and they said, Would you help us write an interview for Coach K, the legendary coach of Duke Basketball, because he was going to be speaking and then he had a schedule change and he couldn't do anything about it. So he said I'd be willing to do an interview if you guys are still willing to have me. We said yes. And so then they were like, Well, you know, And just so happened, I really loved Duke and Coach K, and they said, Could you help this local sports broadcaster who we're going to have do the interview? Will you help him write the interview because he's going crazy? And I said, yes, anything I could do. So we begin to prepare and I prepared the interview for this guy. I was essentially his production assistant on this and read the book cover to cover and wrote what I thought would be a really good interview and had it ready to go. And three days before we were supposed to go to Durham, North Carolina, to do the interview, because I was going to go. That was part of my deals, like, I'll help, but I want to go meet Coach K, you know, So we get a call from the sports broadcaster and he said, Hey, he was the Major League Baseball announcer for the Braves. And he said, We had a rainout last week. Major League Baseball rescheduled the game on the day we're supposed to go do the interview. I can't go anymore. So now we're like, What are we going to do? And the president of my company said, Coleman, you're doing the interview. You wrote it. So you got the interview. You're going to do it. So we went down there and the time came. Coach K comes in the gym. We were seated on the floor of Cameron Indoor and began to do the interview. And this is back in the day when we had little tapes, you know, And so this is a long time ago. I'm dating myself. It's about 30 minutes in. We had to stop and change tapes, so I'm just sitting. Need a new coach that's six inches between our knees just for the camera shot.
Ginny Yurich Unbelievable.
Ken Coleman And the guys are changing the stuff. And he says to me, and because I had his book on my lap and all these index cards that I'd written the interview on, and he said he said, I'll never forget it. He said, Can you? Really? No. My book cover to cover. I said, Yes, sir, I do. And I begin to flip through the book and show him all the red underlined stuff. And he said, I'm really enjoying this interview. And he goes, I got to tell you, you remind me of one of my good friends in the broadcast world. And he said the name of a very well-known anchor and interviewer. And I was like, looking around to see if the guys heard him say that it was one of those pinch me moments. And so that was the moment where I had been considering the idea of is broadcasting, is that a direction? But I just I had no degree in it, no experience. And then God gives me this opportunity and here I am, and then I get this unbelievable validation and affirmation from a legend. And that was the moment that you talk about where I said, I can do this. I believe now that I have the chops. I believe Coach K and I want to give him a shout out because, you know, he didn't have to do that. But he injected enormous belief in me and gave me a great endorsement on the back of the book. You're looking at it, you know. Yeah. You also went the extra mile, gave me an endorsement. So that was a huge moment for me where I realized I can do this. I belong. I should go after this. And that was a moment of confirmation. And to your point, certainly an accident. But I would tell you that that was the beginning of me learning the power of raising your hand, saying yes to opportunities and being around things. Yeah. And when you when you keep showing up in the right place, the right time happens. And that was an example of that.
Ginny Yurich Wow. Well, it's empowering, too, because I think as a parent, then I think like, well, that's nothing that you could control as a parent. You just you're teaching your kids these values and like you said, to show up and to do your best injury the book, because you don't know what's going to happen and things change. And so it's very powerful. It's nothing that you could ever do as a parent. So the pressure is off a bit, right? You're not the one that is making those things happen and those things that happen in life. And even, you know, that's ten years out of adulthood that the story's happening and you had this massive career pivot. I know we have a mutual friend, Ryan Collins. Oh, yes. Who runs Bethel Tack. We just saw him actually out in Redding last week.
Ken Coleman I think he told me that He told me that he and I were having coffee like two days after he saw you. So I remember him telling me he thought the world of you.
Ginny Yurich Oh, that's so cool. Well, he's just got such an amazing program to for career pivot hours. And I think, yeah, it's something to keep in mind really for our children that they probably will have a career pivot. Sure. But also for ourselves. I have a lot of people that write in and say, you know, I'm really not satisfied with my life or I'm not able to do the things I want to do with my kids. And so there's opportunities out there to career pivot even when it feels too late at times. And now here you are. New York Times bestseller. You got this huge podcast, huge following, and you did it in your late twenties. It happened and it feels happenstance, but like you said, it's doing the right things and keeping with it and bringing your best forth and being ready for that interview. Yeah, I fell in love with this one question book and I know it's ten years old and but it's new to me.
Ken Coleman I think that's fun. Thank you. I'm so excited that you enjoyed it.
Ginny Yurich Is new to me and this is a really neat book for anyone listening. It's a quick read. So we've got moms that have little kids and so you can get something out of every chapter. Every chapter is an interview with someone that's famous and your most like deep question that you were able to ask them and what was their answer. And so a couple of things that really stuck with me, Ken, was this interview with Seth Godin talking about fear.
Ken Coleman Yes.
Ginny Yurich And he says people are not risk averse, they're ambiguity averse. And that just stopped me in my tracks. You know, everyone says, you know, don't want to take the risk. But really, it's not that. It's just that we don't know what we're going to you know, if you're an entrepreneur, you don't know. So how have you handled this in your life? You have this huge career pivot. That's a lot of ambiguity here. You are now with these books and things, but you don't know where the path is going to lead. Yeah. How do you handle ambiguity in your career?
Ken Coleman Yeah, so a brilliant Seth Godin, and that was a it was a bomb for me that day. And what I took away from that is, is that the greatest fear that we have is the fear of the unknown. You know, there's fear of failure. There's fear of our peers. What people will say about us. We see this big time with our kids. I'm raising two high schoolers in a middle school. And good gracious, you know, fear of peers is massive for kids, but the fear of the unknown is, to me, the most gripping fear. It's the idea that if you're in a car and you drive into super thick fog, can't see beyond the hood of the car, you are pulling your stuff in that car almost to a standstill and pull it over. It is horrifying. If you've ever been in a cave where it's so dark, you can't see the fingers in front of your face. That's terrifying. When you look at that, it's it's the unknown. We don't know what's going to happen if I move forward, Right? That's all that is the ambiguity. It's like a no no.
Ginny Yurich Right.
Ken Coleman What I've had to do, certainly in my journey professionally and I'm using this in my personal life as well, is when I'm unclear, then I have to take some steps to get clear. In other words, if the fear of the unknown is the greatest fear I believe it is, then what must I do to get as much knowledge as I can around this to where I can move forward? Not in a place of crazy risk, but in mitigated risk. Now it's fancy language, you know the word mitigated. But what that means is, is that there's a difference between risking in the sense of, I'm going to go on a whitewater raft ride, okay, There's some risk involved, you know, But you got your helmet on, you got your life jacket on. You may get bruised, I may break an arm, but you pretty much know what the risk is, as opposed to just jumping off of a cliff that you've never seen before and you have no parachute. That's nuts, right? Right. That's bananas. If we realized the difference between that mitigated risk. Whereas okay, there are some things that I can get some knowledge around and I can figure out, okay, if I, if I do this, I do this, I do this, this could happen. And so let's say starting a business. Well, if I start a business, all right, and I realize, okay, if I don't go for a patent right now and I don't buy 10,000 units of said product, you know, I start really small and I go, come on to buy 500 units and I'm not going to go rent a storefront. I'm going to just started on Facebook or whatever. And so I'm only going to risk I'm making this up. I'm only going to risk $5,000 that, by the way, I've saved up or I can cash flow.
Ginny Yurich You have to say that. Dave Ramsey.
Ken Coleman Absolutely. Well, but I believe this Well, I work for them or not. I believe it because if I take on debt, right, there's greater risk. But if I if I save up for I pay cash or I cash flow it and I go, okay, I'm going to risk $5,000. That's a mitigated risk. And I may not know if it's going to work, but if it doesn't work, it's not devastating. So I get enough knowledge to go, okay, well, if I do this, if I do this, I do this. What does it take to launch? This is okay. Now, what's the small version of the launch? So now the only unknown I have is will the business work? Yeah, but if the business doesn't work, I've risked a small amount of money, and so it's not as paralyzing. That's the idea of you Reduce the ambiguity. To use Seth's words, you reduce the unknown to something that is not devastating. But when the unknown could be devastating, like if you risk $500,000 and you go take out a second mortgage on your home, that unknown is absolutely terrifying. You want to find out as much as you can. What do I not know? What do I need to know that's freaking me out? So I do the best to get that. And then what? Little bit left that I don't know. When I have some uncertainty, I'm going to take on that uncertainty with a small, small, small amount of risk. And so that's how I've gone forward in life. And so that way the fear of the unknown is crippling. It's still there, right? But it's like, Oh, it sucks to lose $5,000. That's stung, right? But it's not crippling. And so therefore, I'm willing and able to move forward.
Ginny Yurich As really eye opening. I've actually never in my life heard that People always say, we're afraid of risk, we're afraid of failure. But this is we're afraid of the unknown.
Ken Coleman We really are.
Ginny Yurich Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And I also liked how you said when you look at our careers, if you work for a large company, you work for someone else. That seems pretty foolproof. But actually there's this comment about it's putting your eggs in one basket. So is that really the safest route? You know, someone else owns and runs it and holds all your eggs in their basket. So I thought that was an interesting thing to think about as well. So just lots of interesting points in there about having fear be our compass. That's just part of the deal. So I love that chapter really stuck with me. Then there was one about rejection, and we've personally had a lot of this year, a lot of no's in our personal life. And so it came at a really good time for me to read it. I think a lot of times when you're told know, your natural inclination is to get them to say yes, yep, but you're taking a different approach. Yeah. So what is your approach to. I know.
Ken Coleman Yeah. We've got to learn how to turn that. No. Because know is very final. Yeah. And with the finality of the word no is a devastating emotion of rejection. And so when we can take the word no and turn it into a not here, not now, now we've got something. Okay, no is final, but not now. So final. I means I got to be patient. Not here. That's not final means. I've got to be persistent. And so if we can begin to grab the tension. Between patience and persistence that the word no gives us this opportunity to embrace. See, a lot of people here know and they go, Well, I tried. That's it. That sucks. Life is stacked against me. I'm a victim, so I'm going to take my ball and go home. But champions and winners in life go. All right. You think you said no? I heard. Not here with you. Not now. I'll be back. And I think that's the key. And so you've got to get to a point where you take rejection, which, by the way, is just below the fear of the unknown. I think the fear of the unknown and the fear of rejection are the two greatest fears, because I think fear rejects is even more more of a sting than the fear of failure. Boy, rejection is I mean, goes back it goes back to elementary school. We wrote those notes. Do you like me? Yes. No. Or maybe. Right. Slide the note across the desk, you know, so we've got to turn rejection into redirection. And so that's the not here, not now. And so what I do is am I disappointed? Yes. But when I redirect, I take that energy of no. And the disappointment, instead of sulking, I channel it and I go, that sucks. Yes. But that means my yes is just a bit closer. You know, if I look back on my professional journey, starting out late twenties, early thirties into this broadcasting thing, every no got me closer to the yes that I needed. And so if I can begin to say, you know what, All right, I thought I belonged here. You said no, I heard not here, not yet. And I kept moving forward. That's the key. That's how we turn rejection into redirection. You know, it's like a little mouse in the maze, you know? And he smells that cheese. Boom. Hits a little wall. What does he do? He's either going left, right or sometimes he's going backwards and redirecting. That is the mental toughness that you're going to need, is to be able to translate a no into not here, not yet. Keep moving. But hey, I've looked back on all my big nose and I've truly been able to go, Oh, so glad that was a no. Wow. Because the fact is, got me where I wanted to be. I don't know where those no's would have taken me. Hmm.
Ginny Yurich It's so powerful. I love this that no doesn't have authority necessarily. Correct. That's one of the things that, you know, it does feel like that person has the authority to speak into your life and to stop whatever direction that you're going on. And so I just got a lot out of this. You say I don't have to keep kicking a locked door.
Ken Coleman Mm hmm.
Ginny Yurich Can you talk about just pivoting? Go somewhere else. Go to a different career. You know, if you're trying to move up and they say and this is one of the stories that was in there, if they say, no, you're not going to be able to move up in this company and jump ship. Yes. Not yeah, go somewhere else. And then Dave Ramsey had had something in there, I think that said or maybe this was yours because it was really cool how you would. We have a lot of stories into the one question of that chapter about all the manure in the Valley is now helping things grow in your life.
Ken Coleman That's right.
Ginny Yurich I mean, these are incredible. You know, you said you've got teens and so do we. It's like these are really incredible life principles for our teens to learn. These aren't necessarily the things that you learn in school, but they are really important things to know. There was one other one that really stuck out to me, which was about focusing on our strengths, and I do think that childhood is really set up to focus on weaknesses. I was like, okay, you can say here's your pat on the back, but you better get that fire up and we're going to work on that, see, And then you got to put all your effort into that. But you talk about people falling into career paths that they love. Do you think a part of that would happen more if we focused on strengths as opposed to weaknesses during childhood?
Ken Coleman 100%. I mean, let's just be honest. This is not a difficult concept for any parent to understand, because if you've got multiple kids, those kids are all very different and they'll have some personal strengths, like personalities and character strengths that the others don't have. It's just how it is. And then if you look at the academic side of things or the task side of things, you know, I for instance, math and science, very difficult for me. My brother, straight-A student, but he's also very gifted mechanically and can build stuff. I can't I love to do what I do mechanically. I put the gas in the car and I can check my oil can't change oil. I can check it. That's just not how I'm wired. And so when you as parents really look at your kids, you can you can see one kid is is really gifted over here. The other kid is gifted over here. And then we start to look at what are they interested in, what lights them up, because I think that's a strength too. So talent is a technical use. Passion is what I call passion is what we love to do. I mean, there are things that they're really gifted at and things that light them up. And if you can find the things that they're gifted at and they light them up because not all of us, though some of us are good at stuff, it doesn't light us up.
Ginny Yurich That's always frustrating, isn't it, when someone's like, really good at something and they don't really care.
Ken Coleman Care. But here's the thing. Let's see. We look at that, we go, What's wrong? I'll tell you what's wrong. Just because they're talented at it, does it mean they love it? Right. But now the magic is to go. What is my kid good at that Also lights them up. Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. Parents, listen to me. That's what you're looking for. What are they good at doing? That also lights them up. But see, in our world, we're so focused on talent as the goal. The talent, not the goal. Being proficient in something is not the goal. Being passionate at something that you are proficient in is the goal. It's about the enthusiasm and giving it your best. We are in a society that focuses on weaknesses back to the education system. And by the way, I know that a lot of you have a very large audience and know a lot of your brand new to me. I am not anti-education. In fact, you don't mean anybody who's more about learning than I am. I just don't think that the only way to learn is in the traditional American classroom. And I'm not a fan of the traditional American classroom model. I'm a fan of teachers, but they don't like it either. By the way, you know, teachers love they love teaching kids and encouraging kids. They don't like the system. Now, let me just tell you what the American education system is doing. It is creating test takers, not pathfinders.
Ginny Yurich Right.
Ken Coleman Because we're teaching kids to do is memorize and regurgitate, not imagine and innovate. And so what's happening is we are beating the curiosity of our kids because and we're teaching them, by the way, that they should be focused on their weaknesses, because when they get their test scores back, what is the first thing they do? They look at their score and then they look at everything they got wrong as opposed to this is everything you got right. And then they got to they work really hard on the subject that they're not good at. Why? So you're telling me from K through 12, we're going to teach kids to work on the stuff that they're not very good at, and then they're going to go out in the real world. And if they do that, they're going to fail miserably. They're going to go get a job and succeed based on what they're good at, not what they suck at. And by the way, I pay people, very talented people to do things that I suck at. I love my track repairman. I love my plumber. I love my electrician. Why? Because I am not a do it yourself guy. Let's use some common sense here, parents. I know I went on a soapbox here, but all to make this point. You as parents are the best authority on what your kids are really good at and what lights them up. Help them see that, push them into those areas to explore and to do and to experience things so that your kids go, Wait a second. It sure is a lot more fun doing something that I'm good at and that I enjoy. And the season the D's get on the tutor just to help them pass. Be okay with that.
Ginny Yurich As a big statement is a big, big statement because to actually do it, it cuts into that status symbol piece, doesn't it.
Ken Coleman Shouldn't.
Ginny Yurich Which is to say, well, my kid's not a 4.0 student.
Ken Coleman Yeah, but I flip it. I flip it because I tell everybody I dropped out of college, I got a 920 on my S.A.T., I dropped college algebra six times. And what else can I say? I'm probably graduating with a25. I don't give a crap what you think about me because of those pieces of data. I care about what you think about me as a husband, as a father, as a citizen, as a teammate, as a brother, as a son. I mean, that's what I should be measured by. I care about all the other stuff because quite frankly, I am a success.
Ginny Yurich Drew Yes, that should be like on a shirt. Quite frankly, I am a success.
Ken Coleman I can. Yeah, I don't mean to say it is there.
Ginny Yurich But it's so true. And a kid gets a 2.5. Who cares.
Ken Coleman Right? On paper, I you know, I am a failure in the American education system on paper, but not here. I don't think so.
Ginny Yurich Number one, bestselling author, number one, national bestseller.
Ken Coleman How about that?
Ginny Yurich Tell us about these assessments that you have, because there are a lot of parents and I've got kids that are getting out into the, you know, middle, middle high school years. You know, you have assessments that kids can take. And we're talking about the things that you don't get in school, like you don't get the advice of what happens if you get a no. What if your heart is set on something and you get a no? What is that closed door mean? And why are we so afraid to take steps forward? Why are we so indecisive? All of these different things, you know, you get out of your book. One question, you get out of there. You tell us about the assessment that you have available.
Ken Coleman Yeah. So the get clear says that we have a student version, and I'm going to offer your audience a special deal here in a second if they want it. Right. But here's what the assessment measures. It is not a personality test, so it's not another version of Enneagram or disc or Myers-Briggs or you pick it's not a personality test. It is a self-awareness assessment that measures three specific areas or. Elements are threads of the human being. One. Talent. What you do best. It will measure your child. We ask all the questions. All they got to do is answer honestly. And it's going to give them a detailed report on what they do best in the world of talent. This is where you're talented. We show them where they're kind of average or where they're below average. So it's a wonderful, wonderful assessment.
Ginny Yurich What are some examples of talents that you know, a student might have?
Ken Coleman So I'll give you one. A talent is imagination. So your super creative kids are going to score high in the talent of imagination. Another one, some of your detail, maybe your engineering kind of wired kids are going to score high, probably in the talent of inspection. Just to give you two there. So there are 12 talents and I won't list them all out. And so you see your top three and so you get a detailed report on your top three and then we show you where you score on the other nine for the purpose of going. Here are my super talents, my top three. Then here are my solid talents and those, by the way, with learning and experience and some grit and hustle can be turned into some super talents. So our solid talent support, our super talents, and some can become super talents. But then we have the bottom three of the subpar talents. In other words, weaknesses. And we just need to be aware of these things. We don't need to be ashamed of them. Sure, we should be proud of them. I love to tell people how bad at math I. It's fantastic. I'm proud of it. Right, Because it just doesn't matter. And I pay people who are really good at math. They got to have an accountant or I'd be in jail for tax evasion, you know, on accident. Then we get into passion. Passion is what we define as work we love. So these are tasks or roles at work that we enjoy. And there's 15 of those.
Ginny Yurich Give an example.
Ken Coleman Yeah. So one would be teaching. So if you have the talent of instruction, I didn't mention that one on the other one then is probably going to line up with the passion of teaching, right? Another one is caretaking, taking care of others or animals. You see a lot of people like in the you know, like in the animal space or maybe in medicine are going to score high on caregiving. I said caretaking. Caregiving is the actual term there. So that's one of the passions. So it's very people focused work. You love caring for people. And so the third element is mission, and that means results that I am motivated to produce. So all work, passion creates a result. So let's say you've got the one of your top three passions work or a role you love is caregiving. Then your mission result. What motivates you is probably service. So when you understand that all work creates a result, you also want to know, Well, what results do I want my work to produce? And that's what gets me out of bed on a monday morning. And I'm not like, You want to go to work because by the way, no one can motivate you. No one can motivate you. I can't motivate you. Your parents can't motivate you. We parents think we can motivator kids, but what we're doing is manipulating. And this is what's bad leadership. It's good parenting. Good parenting is a form of manipulation. It sounds awful. Stay with me, parents. It's this. Hey, boys. I got two teenage boys. They live in squalor. If I let them write this. Disgusting. Their bedrooms and bathroom guys. Yeah. Go now. Your friends, those bedrooms cleaned up. So what do they do? They clean up. But are they motivated in doing it with a whistle and a song? No. Oh, great. They clean it up with a bad attitude. Now I got the result I wanted, but it's not the result that they want. So that's not real motivation. That's a form of manipulation. In other words, I'm holding I'm dangling either a reward, they get to go with their friends or punishment. They don't get to go with their friends. That's what a lot of leaders do. And it's horrible. That's not real motivation. Motivation is is where I get up at 6 a.m. to exercise or I eat right because I want this benefit. Or you pick a positive sacrifice that you make because you're looking for something positive on the other end. So that's the idea. And so you're going to get your primary mission result. Like this is what drives me. Give you an example. One is influence. So one of the mission results in the assessment is influence. If you're driven to influence people now, you know, okay, whatever work I do, I better be doing that work to drive influence changing people. And so the assessment measures what you do best, what you enjoy doing and then what motivates you. Here's how it comes to play. Your kid is going to figure out what they're supposed to do with their life. If they figure out how to use what they do best to do work, they look to produce results that matter them. I'll say it again You're on purpose. You found your sweet spot, your niche at work. If you're using what you do best to do work you really enjoy to produce results that matter deeply to you parents. That's your job. Help your kids see that and they'll be able to live a life of meaning and purpose and make the contribution that. They were designed to make it so. It's called the get clear work assessment. Kurt, I want to make sure that we get we're going to give your audience a discount. Parents, if they want this for their kids and if parents want it, we'll have the parent version or the adult version and the student version, and we'll give $10 off. It's a $30 assessment. We'll give it to your audience for 20.
Ginny Yurich Okay, I'll put it in the show notes.
Ken Coleman Work with you afterwards and we'll figure out how to do that.
Ginny Yurich So, Ken, what age or age would you do? High school?
Ken Coleman Yeah, I'd start in ninth grade. It's not a perfect process in the sense that the kids, if they try to game it, if they answer the questions the way that they think they should versus, you know, the more honest you are in the questions, the more honest the results.
Ginny Yurich Yeah.
Ken Coleman And it's important for parents to know that even if it's not because these kids are younger and so they may not know a lot when it comes to the type of work they love, obviously. But we've had thousands and thousands of students take it. It works in the sense of it creates a conversation around these things. Doesn't have to be something that you put in stone. It's more of a conversation starter around the process of getting aware.
Ginny Yurich Well, it's a guide, and I think that's what's so interesting. I mean, I can look at my own life and think back to the decisions that you make. Their really big decisions can at the end of high school. And I always think I used to teach high school and ironically, I had to high school math. Yeah. But, you know, and I would have these students that would come in for tutoring and I would think the same thing. And like, this is so sad. Like, they're just it's not their thing. Yeah, but here their parents are spending all this money and they're trying to do this, do all that, and it's just not their thing. But there's so many other things that were their thing.
Ken Coleman Yes. Yes.
Ginny Yurich You know, when I was graduating high school and you're making these huge these monumental decisions about college and career and your finances and, you know, it's like I just remember there was like a pool of 100 jobs. It was like you could be a teacher, you could be a fireman, you could deliver the mail. I mean, it was just like. But as I've become older, I've learned that there's all sorts of other jobs. A job that really has interested me, which I had didn't even know exist, was like, you can design package, like package design. Yes. And like, that's like a whole career path. And I didn't know that existed. It is. And I'm like, that piqued my interest, but I was kind of too late for it. So what's interesting to me about what you have is that even as the world changes, this guide works because it's helping you find the type of career or careers that might fit not one, not you're going to be this one thing. And then as the world in this, I and some careers are becoming obsolete and some are popping up and like Ryan Collins has his Bethel Tech School for career pivot hours, that you have a better sense of yourself and where you would fall in the realm of jobs that are available. So what a cool thing to get clear. Student assessment and work assessment. Great for parents. Like I said, I get parents that reach out to that say I want to homeschool now, so I need to change my career path. I need to make some changes for my family. So there is a fantastic thing that you have available. And also these books about careers, paycheck to purpose and proximity principle. So about finding careers that you love, do you? I know that you have had so many people who have taken these assessments and read your books. Is there a stand out story or are there so many that it's hard to even keep track, like from someone who said, look, I was in a dead end job or I was hating my Monday morning, really struggling through. And I took your assessment or I read this book and I made this big change. Do you like I mean, I'm sure you get so many.
Ken Coleman Yeah, there are a lot. I'm trying to think of one recently that stands out. I mean, there's a lot of people that have pivoted. Oh, what I tell you, one one that comes out is very powerful because when you take the assessment, you begin to see the work as a a solution to a problem that you care deeply. So when I'm coaching people and they can have their assessments. So, you know, back to what we were teaching, if you use it, you do best to do work. You love to produce results that matter to you. You're on purpose, but you start to figure out the results that matter to you. When you realize the people you want to help the problem or desire they have. And then you begin to see the very specific type of work that solves this problem. See, we as humans, at our best, we want to contribute something that's far greater than ourselves. We want to make a difference in the lives of others. So I'll never forget, I read a testimony from somebody who took the assessment and is pretty heart wrenching stuff. And the initial result that sticks out to me, it was about service and that was that part of the assessment that caregiving was in there advocating was in there. That's one of the passions advocating and I believe, advising. So I believe the results were advising, advocating and caregiving, and the mission result was service. And the email that I got, the guy was saying that it had completely confirmed what he had been wrestling with for years because. As he was in technology and he was an executive in technology. So doing very, very well. So, you know, the old golden handcuffs, if you will. And he had for years been thinking about getting into child psychiatry and psychology work. And when he saw his results, it was like hit him right in the chest. And he went on to share with me that he had been abused as a kid. And this validated this deep, abiding passion, the advising, the advocating the caregiving to meet kids that had been in the same situation that he had been in. To come out of it. He wanted to be a part of that. And it was just it was gut wrenching to read it, but so very powerful. And so the results of the assessment gave him that nudge. It was about confirmation, and that's why I call it an awareness tool. Yeah, this tool like no other assessment in my opinion, because it shines a mirror at us, it lets us see ourselves. I am good at data. I do care d I love doing this kind of this lights me up when I think about it. I get excited when I get in the middle of it. I lose track of time, can't wait to get back at it. And then I. I bleed for this. This breaks my heart or this fills my heart. And that's what it does. And so in that situation, it was the nudge he needed. And so he began the process of getting the education. And he's on his path now, and he's going to be meeting kids in some really dark places, but places that he's been. And he needed that confirmation that he was, in fact, wired to do something that happened to him. It wasn't his fault, but he did have the wiring for it and he also had the heart for it. So it was that was pretty awesome stuff. And there's, you know, a lot of stories of single moms, you know, make it a total direction, change in their life and be able to do something that they're very good at. So lots of fun stories.
Ginny Yurich Wow. Well, it's a wide net because if four out of five people are not loving their work life, that's a lot of people. And also that's a lot of our time. I mean, so much of our life does go to work and the things that we do there. So this is really impactful. Give me a one last story that was in one question. So once again, I just think these are great books, especially. I mean, your book selections change when you have teens, I think, because you're wanting to impart to them the things that they might not get off of a worksheet. And so these are great reminders for us as adults if we're in careers that we don't love, but also as are raising our kids, just really important things. And one of the stories that I thought was so powerful in one question was about your coach Paulk and that you went to him to express gratitude and no one else had. Can you tell us about that?
Ken Coleman Yeah. Yeah. You know, years ago I was back in my hometown area, see my mom and dad. And of course, you know, I don't know if I don't know if it's just me. I don't know. But whenever I go back to Virginia, the Tidewater Hampton Roads area, anytime I go back home, I have memories of high school. And, you know, that's kind of that's when I was there. You know, I went off to college in a different area. So, you know, you just kind of flooded with memories. And I had been writing about coach in my first book. And by the way, Coach Paulk makes an appearance in all three of my books. And the reason is because he had a profound effect on me and primarily the effect that Coach Ball Academy is he believed in me. He had a tremendous amount of belief in me my senior year on our basketball team and gave me an enormous boost in my life that I think I've carried for a long time. So I love coach, really appreciate coach. I admired him. I looked up to him, he helped me. He believed in me. And so I had the idea. I was like, You know what? I'm writing about him. He's on my mind. I'm back in. I haven't talked to him in like 15 years. At that point, I think it's probably about 15 years. So I called him up. He was the athletic director at another school and no longer coaching, and he was thrilled to hear from me. I said, Coach, can I come by and see? He's like, You know, he's got this deep Georgia accent. He's like, Come on. Coleman And I showed up and spent about 30 minutes with him in his office. He had a steady parade of high school kids coming in to see him. And every time they came in, he goes, Those were my former players, Kent Coleman right here. Now he's an author and a speaker. You know, he was it was it was you could tell he was proud and I was proud that he was proud. And it was a really sweet moment. But as we walked out to the parking lot, he said, Man, I really appreciate you coming by, you guys. I've heard from many of my former players a long time, and you're the first one to ever come. Tell me, you know, thank you. And it means the world to me and I love you. And I said, I love you, too, coach. And that's not a guy that I would ever envision myself saying, I love you. He's tough. I mean, he poke is as tough as a $2 steak. I couldn't believe that those words were uttered, gave each other a hug. The reason I write about that in the book is I think it's really important that we show gratitude to people who have poured into us, who have believed in us, who have given us a shot because none of us got here on our own. It's like it's like walking along and seeing a turtle on the top of a fence. One thing you're sure of is that Turtle didn't get there by himself.
Ginny Yurich Well, then you had in here, it kind of went along with it. But the Zig Ziglar says you can have everything in life you want if you help other people get what they want.
Ken Coleman We got a get you some some green tea with honey. Bless your heart. Take your time. Take your time.
Ginny Yurich Well, can I just I so appreciate this. This has been such a cool thing to meet you and to read your books. And like I said, they hit me right where I was at, you know, even ten years later. And like so many of these things that are happening in our life, more like right out of your book. So it was such a cool thing. If people want to find you, they can find you everywhere.
Ken Coleman I don't. Yeah.
Ginny Yurich I put all the things, but you know, you have your Ken Coleman show that has over 1500 episodes. Unbelievable. You have the coolest podcast episode titles that I've actually ever seen. They're so intriguing.
Ken Coleman Thank you.
Ginny Yurich You have these assessments and these books, and there's so much this makes sure I link to everything else I hear. I hear for parents. I hear for students. I can we always end our podcast with the same question. And that question is what is a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?
Ken Coleman Favorite memory of my childhood from outside. Oh, wow. So we had this big. I'm going to guess now, Gosh, it felt like it was 100 feet tall, but I'm guess it was probably only 25, 30 feet tall, pine tree in our backyard. And because it was so old and thick, grass never grew around, you know? And so it kind of had this when it was rainy, it was muddy. But when it wasn't rainy, it was like this perfectly awesome soft dirt. And I had these little GI Joe men that I used to play with when I was a kid. And I had a big imagination. And so I remember I don't know how old I was, but this is the memory for me. I would spend hours out there laying in the dirt, you know, and you had all these old roots that would come out of the bottom of the tree. And so it created all these natural little readouts and all these like, you know, little areas. And you could do tunnels and you could create this little war zone, if you will. And my little G.I. Joe guys could could have a big time out there. And I just remember in the hot summers, it was still cool in there. And I remember that being such a fun, little quiet, creative space for me at the base of a tree. I also scaled that tree many times. I pulled probably many branches out of that tree and turned them into guns because that's what little boys do. You know, you're you're not allowed to do that anymore, I guess. But that was back when you could have fun with a box and a stick, you know. And I remember stretching Stretch Armstrong around that tree a few times. There's an old toy for some of your audience that you have no idea what that is for others, your audience, they love me now for bringing back a fabulous memory of Stretch Armstrong, one of the greatest toys ever made. So I think that little tree in our backyard is is a place of many outdoor memories for me.
Ginny Yurich I love it. And it comes full circle because we started off by talking about imagination and the world of wonder for kids and how important that is. Ken This has been awesome. It's so cool when like worlds collide, like you're talking, you know, a lot to adults and high schoolers. But this audience, you know, we're we're trying to prepare our kids. And I think one of the best ways to do that is to understand the job market and to understand how to end up in a spot that you are very fulfilled. And so that's what you're doing. That's what you're providing for people around the globe. So I so appreciate your time. Love your books and your website. Fantastic, too. Like I had read, I took notes and 25 high paying jobs that don't require a bachelor's degree. So really cool articles on there that people can find. History is full of movers and shakers who carved their own path far away from traditional education. So lots of awesome things on your website as well. So can. Thank you so much.
Ken Coleman Thank you. I'm so honored. And make sure your audience knows if they want to get the get clear assessment for their students or for themselves. $10 off on that. This will be a great investment in you or your children, I promise. Awareness is a superpower, and so we want to make sure that you you take that opportunity if that feels like a good fit for you guys. But I'm honored to be with you. You could have had a lot of people today and somehow you picked me. So I'm grateful. Thank you.
Ginny Yurich Thanks so much, Ken.
